Billboard Salutes Rca: Bob Jamieson And Jack Rovner

Reunited at RCA, the partnership of Jamieson and Rovner assembled the team that returned the label to prominence. How do they work?



BY GEOFF MAYFIELD

There are lots of ways to measure success in the music business, most of them wrapped in numbers. You can count No. 1 artists and chart-topping albums, add up how many albums and songs appear on the charts, stack up gold and platinum certifications or measure the growth of a company's market share.

Those yardsticks can certainly be used when you size up the invigoration of RCA, an admirable climb that began when Bob Jamieson and Jack Rovner took the label's helm in 1995. But, if you really want to comprehend how much esteem these managing partners generated by restoring the label to prominence, you need only look at Billboard's Executive Turntable column. Twice within little more than half a year, both Jamieson and Rovner were promoted.

In June of last year, the label's team was rewarded with additional billing, when parent company BMG elected to merge its BMG Classics and Windham Hill divisions under RCA's stewardship. With the creation of the RCA Group, Jamieson, then the label's president, and executive VP/GM Rovner were given expanded responsibilities.

Soon after the sudden death, in December, of Rudi Gassner, who had been poised to become BMG's president/CEO, RCA's braintrust was given even more significant votes of confidence. Gassner's successor, Rolf Schmidt-Holtz, named Jamieson president/CEO of BMG North America in January. A few weeks later, Rovner assumed the presidency of RCA.

Among the highlights of the Jamieson/Rovner team: the Dave Matthews Band has become one of rock's biggest attractions; Christina Aguilera and Tyrese launched promising careers; considerable sales from international artists like Natalie Imbruglia, Lou Bega and Los Del Rio, and, oh yes, profits. In 1997, just two years after Jamieson and Rovner arrived, BMG announced the label had posted the highest revenue in its long history, and its best profits since BMG acquired the label 10 years earlier.

Funny thing is, as great as their run has been, when initially approached, neither man had any big desire to manage RCA. "I turned the job down three times," recalls Jamieson, who oversaw BMG Canada from 1990 to 1995. "I didn't want it at all. I just wanted them to get somebody good to do it, because when I was running the Canadian operation, I was very happy, but I wasn't getting enough great music out of RCA."

"I had no intention, frankly, of going back into a label situation, because I had enough challenges going on," remembers Rovner, who was senior VP of BMG Ventures and marketing for BMG North America when Jamieson enlisted him.

Strauss Zelnick, then freshly installed as CEO of BMG, eventually persuaded Jamieson, who in turn prevailed on Rovner. The two had worked together before, when Jamieson was with CBS Records (now Sony Music) and Rovner was with Columbia. Although international repertoire and a partnership with rap label Loud Records beefed up RCA's billing in the short term, the real mission that unfolded as these partners assembled their executive team was the building of a record company that patiently focused on artist development. With Jamieson and Rovner settling into their new roles, RCA's mandate remains unchanged.



You really didn't want the job, Bob?

Jamieson: I said, "I really don't want to do it. I'm happy where I am. Why should I think that I can do it? You've had some really good music people in that job, and they've all failed. It's not them. It's got to be the environment."

We kept going along. Finally, one day, Strauss got me in a room and said, "Look, I really want you to do this. What's it going to take?" I said, "Well, I don't do it for money. I've never done anything for money and I won't do it now. If I do this, it's going to be painful. It's going to be expensive. It's gonna take time, and it may not work. The corporation has to support those efforts and understand that it's not going to happen overnight. This company didn't get in the toilet in one year. It got in the toilet over 20 years. It's not going to come out of the toilet in one year. It's gonna take three to five years. It's going to take three years before you even know if it's working. If you've got cold feet, or if you think I can do it in less time, you've got the wrong guy."



What was the management philosophy and game plan that enabled you to bring the label back?

Rovner: Putting together the best team, the best artists, and putting your head down and just going for it. "Less is more" is our philosophy. We believe that the world is not waiting for music from an unknown band. We've got to create enough noise and awareness out there so they'll want to listen to this new music. Once the record is complete, we spend an enormous amount of time setting up the record and giving the music a chance to get out into the marketplace and find champions. My analogy: It's like a bottle of fine wine. You open it up, and you've got to let it breathe.

Jamieson: We got some success early. One of the big fears I had when Dave [Matthews] started to happen and La Bouche started to happen and "Macarena" started to happen, people started to say, "It's fixed." I said, "That's the worst thing you can say. It's not fixed. Just because you have some hit records and you look like you're going in the right direction financially, that doesn't mean the underbelly of the company is fixed."

When you got inside this company, nobody in this industry, including me, would have ever had any idea how rotten the boards were in this ship. They were just rotten to the core. There's a lot of stuff that had to be sorted out: the systems, the procedures, the reporting lines, so many crazy things that you have to do just to be in a position where you can be competitive. Corporate supported all of that and gave us this opportunity.

I expected that, in three years, we'd start to make a difference. My own projections were that we would start to turn some profit in three. I didn't necessarily want anyone in corporate to think that, but in my own mind, I had the target that we'd start to make money in three, and we did. We had much greater success earlier than I thought we would, but I don't think anyone should or can calculate the kind of success we had over the last two years. It wouldn't have been based on anything. It would have been pure arrogance on our part. We got lucky, and the harder we worked, the luckier we got.



For more than a decade, there have been concerns that radio is more focused on songs than on artists, which creates an environment where it is difficult for consumers to develop a sense of loyalty to an artist. In fact, it appears that a few of the acts who helped you get RCA on track just a few years ago are no longer recording. What challenges do you face, building a company based on artist development in an era when we hear so many pre-fab hits?

Rovner: Certainly, because of the consolidation everywhere in our business—radio, retail, touring, the video outlets, the music business itself and even on the Internet—it has made it much more difficult to create careers. It certainly can happen, and it will happen, but you really have to be much more strategic in your thinking. You have to make sure the entire team is completely focused on putting 150% into that build, and not every artist is going to build that firm base on the first record. So you have to be patient, and we are in a business where there's a lot of immediate gratification that has to take place.

As long as we stick to our mission, and as long as we know we have the goods, then it will come together. It might not happen on the first record. We weren't with David Gray throughout the period of his first three releases, but it happened for him, and it's going to happen in a big, big way on this record.

Dave Matthews, although he's had multiplatinum records, is truly hitting his stride with this record. I mean, look at the first-week sales, look at sold-out stadiums across the country and, in many markets, multiple dates. And, now, we're just focusing on what we believe is his crossover with "The Space Between." We were already close to 3 million units [before we worked] a multi-format [track].



When Dave Matthews Band decided to scrap the album it completed last year and start over with a new producer, you ended up with more time to pull together a marketing plan than you had with its earlier releases. As a result, Everyday sold 733,000 in its first week, the biggest sales week in the band's career. What elements of that album's marketing plan seemed to draw that traffic?

Rovner: When we sit around the table, we don't look at one thing. We look at all the channels available to us to create awareness—Internet, radio, certainly what's happening at the retail level, the video channels, press, TV—and we look to create major awareness in each one of those channels. We looked at each one from top to bottom and made sure there was enough activity going on so that, certainly the fan base, but much beyond the fan base, were aware that Dave Matthews had a new record out and that it was a very special record.

You look to create as much noise in every channel for every artist, where available. In the case of Dave Matthews, frankly, there's much more available to you. In the case of Tyrese, there's an enormous amount available to him. Not only does he have a smash single, but he's really the star of John Singleton's new film, so there's going to be enormous awareness there. He has been a personality on TV through MTV, through his modeling with Guess and Coca Cola, through his vast touring. He is a multimedia, multifaceted recording artist, and it's going to come together for Tyrese at the end of May and [in] June with the release of his new album and his starring role in the Singleton film.

With every campaign, you look to make as much noise in every channel that's available to a record company and to a recording artist, and some have more opportunities than others because of where they are in their careers.



As is true of many record companies, many of the employees who work at RCA previously worked at other labels. To a person, practically everyone I know at RCA thinks this label is unique from the ones where they've worked before. I take it that creating such an atmosphere was your intention?

Jamieson: Definitely. I try to treat people the way that I would like to be treated. I want us to always appreciate, respect and cherish the artist and understand that the artist is the reason we're here. But we can make a difference.

I think one of the problems in our industry today is that, for the most part, there are publicly traded corporations that are dealing with stockholders who have no sympathy and no concern and really no interest in the music. They're just looking to make money on their stock. Sometimes, creativity takes longer than expected.

If you get great people together who are passionate about what they do—and we all have the same objective, which is to build something very special, and we're given support from corporate—we're given the time and the resources—we can do things that are very special.

Rovner: We have a very unique culture here. It is truly a team, and it's not about one person. It is about the team, and it really rings true that you're only as good as your weakest link. We want everybody here to think they have a hand on the steering wheel.

Jamieson: I think it's important to recognize anybody in the company who makes a contribution, no matter how small or large in the big picture it may appear. It's all important to us because it makes the company work better. If it's worthy of doing, it's worthy of doing well. If they do it well, then they should be recognized. That recognition may be a "hello" in the morning, a "Thanks a lot" or a quick note to somebody, whatever it might be.

I started, when I got to RCA, what I called the President's Award. It is given to an employee who, in my mind, has made an extraordinary over-and-above contribution to the company. In most cases, its winners have not been your high-profile people—not the person you hear about, not the person you read about. It's somebody who is in the trenches everyday doing his job. [Longtime RCA publicist] Marilyn Lipsius, who died of leukemia right after I started at RCA, was the first recipient of the President's Award. After she passed away, we changed it to the Marilyn Lipsius Award.



Since the two of you arrived at RCA, I've noticed that, in product presentations, or anytime one of you mentions an album, that the A&R person who worked on that project gets prominent mention.

Jamieson: The A&R people are out there every day for us, trying to find those special artists who can be successful and help your company. They need to be respected. They are artists in their own way, and they need to be treated as artists in some ways. They're also like starting pitchers. A pitcher's arm will get tired and he has to retire. An A&R guy doesn't necessarily last forever, so I think it's important that they get the recognition they deserve and the support they need.

I didn't want to have a head of A&R, because I wanted to talk directly to the A&R guys myself. I still believe that's the best way to go, and I know Jack does. I think other companies have begun to use that approach. As I said to the A&R guys, "No disrespect to anybody, but if my ass is on the line to help turn this company around, I want to talk to the guys who are going to find the talent. I want to look you in the eye and hear your vision and feel what you're feeling. Let's do this together, and we can make decisions faster." It's not filtered though anybody, and there's no hidden agenda here. It works well for us.



Through the time that you worked together at RCA, the label truly was run by a partnership. One rarely heard Bob's name without Jack also being mentioned. How would you characterize the chemistry between you?

Rovner: I would say it was a ying and a yang. The lines were always blurred about what we do. Much of it was unspoken. We just would meet and talk constantly. We'd both go out and do it. Clearly, we had people on an organizational chart who reported to us directly, but, even in the case of A&R and business affairs, the lines were always blurred, so we had a unique partnership.

Bob convinced me that this was going to be a unique situation and that he wanted me to be his partner. He lived up to every word. It's been just a wonderful and unique relationship that we continue to have, even in our new positions.

Jamieson: I think we still maintain a mutual respect for one another. We're different people. We approach things in slightly different ways sometimes. Sometimes, we're right in the same game, but we've known each other for 20-some years. We both worked at CBS.

Early on, when I first got to know Jack a little bit, I found him to be very creative and very smart, very energetic. When you meet those kinds of people along the way, you remember them and you want to try and work with them one day.

I have a very special relationship with a number of people who I met when I was at CBS whom I respect and who have gone on to do great things in the industry today. [Universal Music and Video Distribution chairman] Jim Urie is one of them, [Island Def Jam Music Group chairman] Jim Caparro is another. We all came up together; both of those guys worked for me at the New York branch. They have both made major contributions to the industry. Jack is one of those guys, as well.



With Bob moving over to BMG North America and Jack taking over RCA, how do you see the future unfolding?

Rovner: My job is to ignite passion for the music. In leading RCA, we need to create a balance between creativity and profit. That means being a profitable record company with a solid business practice, but with the top creative professionals and allowing them to push the envelope and to always have this company led by A&R. That's why I believe we have the best creative team: the best A&R and the best marketers to spotlight and support those artists. It's been a winning combination for RCA in the past, and that will not change in the future.

Now, Bob will no longer be eight steps down the hall. He'll be eight floors above, but we'll still have that partnership, although it will be a different type. My analogy is that Bob is now in the lighthouse and we're still on the ship. He is making sure that if we do hit some rough waters, the light will always be shining on us and he'll be there for us.

Jamieson: My role is to help where and when I can, that the label heads and people in the company will ask for my help. And, if I see a problem, I will try to solve it before it becomes too big a problem.

We have some very experienced people running our companies. They're aggressive, most are new in their roles, and they all want to prove to the world that they can deliver and take their individual labels—and the company overall—to the next level.

I think RCA is in good hands. I have a lot of respect for [Arista president], L.A. [Reid]. I have a lot of respect for [J Records founder] Clive [Davis]. I have a lot of respect for [BMG Distribution chairman] Pete [Jones], [executive VP/GM, RCA Victor Group] David Weyner and [RCA Label Group chairman] Joe Galante. I think we all work together quite well.

We are pleased with where we are. I think the company's going to explode, probably in 2002, once everyone gets settled into their new positions. I think it's going to be an outrageous year for RCA and an outrageous year for BMG, because all of the transitions will be behind us. I think it's going to be a great 2002, and I hope we build on that.



You had respect for the late Rudi Gassner, who hired you to run BMG Canada, and for Strauss Zelnick, who tapped you to run RCA. In the wake of Gassner's death, and prior to that, the departure of Zelnick, did you have to think twice when BMG president/CEO Rolf Schmidt-Holtz offered you the BMG North America post?

Jamieson: I always felt that if Rudi and Strauss were to get along, and take the strengths of each of them, that would have been an unbeatable team. It never worked out that way, and that was unfortunate. When I was offered this opportunity here, I was surprised. I knew Rolf a little bit. I'd been in a couple of meetings with him over time. I knew him to be an honorable man, a very nice man and a smart man. The corporation respects him, so that's a real plus. I felt I could work with him, but I didn't expect that I was going to be offered this job.

I got to the point where I thought that the company needs help. They need some music people now that changes have taken place. I felt I could make a contribution and I thought it was important that they had somebody who was experienced in the U.S. music business in a senior-management position.

Aside from Matthews' "The Space Between'" and Tyrese's "I Like Them Girls," what other music has you excited?

Rovner: The follow up from David Gray, "Please Forgive Me,'" that will clearly take him to double platinum and beyond. Eve 6 released "Here's to the Night," which we all felt was the smash on the record. We couldn't get to it late last year because, with the Christmas holiday, it's hard to release a single. It's out at modern rock and modern adult, and we're seeing significant sales action.

As far as new artists, we are over the top about a band called the Calling. Cherokee's new record is just extraordinary. She had a critically acclaimed album about two years ago. She started recording this one about a year ago, and I can't wait for people to hear it. Heather Headley is working on her album. I don't know if she will make this year, probably not, but that's going to be a huge focus for us. Coko's new record is a great, great album. We're just finishing that one. It will be out in August. We're excited about Doyle Bramhall II, who's on tour throughout the summer with Eric Clapton; Sugarbomb, a rock band from Dallas that David Bendeth signed, and Headstrong, another band that David Bendeth signed.



What else might we expect as RCA's future unfolds?

Rovner: We have a real commitment and focus right now to develop our urban area. I really believe that, with the kind of music that's coming out from Tyrese, Cherokee, Dante and a new act called Smash Task, we will turn some heads. We will be a player in the urban music game, although we will be doing it the RCA way, meaning that we won't be signing a lot of acts.

Jamieson: On the pop/rock side, you'll continue to see some great acts coming out of there. Jack is in the game, making deals with the right people. I don't think we're going to miss a beat, and I think the company is going to grow even faster than it was growing. We've got the wind in our sails now. A lot of the start-up stuff is behind us. RCA is considered to be a competitive label, and it'll be more so.