One of the things that you have to have and really is very valuable in starting up any business is someone who is going to get up in the morning and go to bed at night living and breathing that business. That's the main thing that they care about. It helps if that person has experience, but it's more important, in a lot of cases, that they have the drive and the dedication.

And Sundance didn't have anybody like that, and I said, you know, `I know a lot of people in the industry. I can't do it for you because I can't move to Utah. However, I can help you find somebody. But if you're not prepared to do that, you ought to really seriously consider whether you should start out on this path because that's one of the things that's required.' And they said, `Well, let's write the business plan. Let's see.' So we did that. We wrote the business plan and we formed the company, got it capitalized, and then Sundance made a really good offer to me. So at this point, I had to make some decisions about whether, as a business opportunity and as a career opportunity for myself and my family, I wanted to pick up stakes from Manhattan Beach, California, where I was living a half a block from the ocean, where you can see and hear the waves pounding outside the window, and move to Utah, a place I had literally never been.

I had visions of vast deserts covered with salt and sea gulls.

That was really all I knew. I didn't even know there were mountains out here. And I'd never been to the place. But I thought, `Well, it's certainly worth looking at.' I came out here, got familiar with it, thought about the business, and there was a very big difference between Sundance and where I had come from with Right Start. With Right Start, it was three guys named Lenny, Stan and Harry. I mean, if you opened the front cover of our catalog, you'd see there's Lenny, Stan and Harry holding stuffed animals. And, you know, we wanted our faces and names to be there, but we weren't particularly well known.