Concrete contracting 101: team building, education, and growing new markets topped the list at...

When you get a half dozen contractors talking about the business of concrete construction, two things are clear: They are passionate about what they're doing, and they each have their own unique ways of solving problems.

For the third year now, CONCRETE CONSTRUCTION hosted an Industry Trends

Tom Klemens: Let's start by looking at three broad topics. The first is team building, both within your company and with the others involved in projects. That naturally leads into the second concern--education and training. The third is promoting the use of concrete and growing your business.

Learning from Wal-Mart

Darryl Manuel: Wal-Mart this year decided they wanted to have exposed concrete floors. That meant all the material suppliers needed to use the same set of rules and do what has to be done to get a good concrete floor, so we developed the "Wal-Mart team partnership for exposed concrete floors."

Dave Scurto: We just finished a Wal-Mart, and it worked real well.

Manuel: The goal was to produce consistent colored-concrete retail floors. This sounds very easy, but achieving consistency can be difficult. One key is to have a sample slab that everybody signs off on. That way you can say, "This is what we made and you approved, and this is what you got."

The other key is having a partner ship with the general contractor and ensuring a good application of the hardener-densifier. The way Wal-Mart handles this is by providing ultra-clear specs.

Ian Blair: Over the years I've done probably 25 Wal-Mart stores and about 40 Lowes stores, but only one Wal-Mart in the last two to three years. The general contractors in our area that chase the Wal-Marts tend to use concrete contractors I would call fly-by-nights, who really don't know much about what they're doing. When Wal-Mart came up with the color floor idea, we got a little bit excited, but unfortunately in our area it hasn't changed things.

Manuel: I don't know how that's happening because they now have the ACI certification requirement. But what you're talking about is changing.

Joe Neuber: The good thing is that they've hired Structural Services to oversee and monitor all their retail stores. So the information, documentation and specifications are going to be written a lot more clearly and concisely. You can bid on it, and you should know what's going on.

Manuel: The concept of building for 10 years and having problems occur in the 11th doesn't work. If you build for 10 years, the problems start in the first year. They're tired of paying for planned obsolescence. The money comes out of two different budgets. Increasing the construction budget helps keep the operating budget down, and that's the budget that hits the bottom line. So, for example, the Wal-Mart spec calls for a certain amount of floor densifier. The amount has to be correct, because if it doesn't go on that floor then that floor is going to wear through.

Neuber: To address that, I think your industry needs to work with our industry. The square-foot-per-gallon coverage you recommend was applicable 20 years ago, but it's not today. With the big trowel machines we have, we can seal and densify floors 10 times denser than we used to. And we throw 35% of anybody's product down the drain, because once you get to a certain point, the floor won't take any more.

There are contractors out there whose floors are not densified. They'll use a gallon on 250 square feet, but we find it's anywhere from 300 to 325.

There are two issues here. First, guys are trying to buy less and trick the owner into thinking they used the proper amount. Beyond that, good contractors are not being rewarded for the quality of their floors. There should be a line that says something like the average should be 275 square feet per gallon.

Manuel: Why are you concerned about whether it's 275 or 250 being put down?

Neuber: Two reasons. I'm not being able to take advantage of my competitive edge and the quality of my work. And it just bothers me when I have to throw 35% of that down the sewer and think what a waste of money that the owner didn't need to spend.

Bill Palmer: But everyone still gets the whole teamwork idea.... The team should say that this is good work.

Manuel: This is just one of many similar programs they are using. My question is, did you make money on that job?

Scurto: Yes, we did fine and I'll do them again. I don't know if we'll get the next one, but we'll bid it again. It was a good experience.

Learning in the shop

Rafael Cabrera: I'd like to see more companies on your level get more assertive in helping the employers educate their employees.

Blair: In the construction business, when you're attempting to educate the craftspeople using written material, whether in Spanish or English, you have to make sure that they can read. You can have somebody who speaks English but never learned to read. That may be part of the reason they've chosen to go into concrete.

Bob Rininger: We can set up all the educational seminars that we want to, but you've got to make it during worktime; they're not going to come after work. We're going to pay to get guys to learn English, and we're going to pay to get guys to learn Spanish. You've got to do it.

Doug Bannister: There's an ASCC contractor member who holds a school in-house. The guys come after work, and it doesn't cost them any motley. He can take a non-English-speaking person who has just come into the country and make him a superintendent or project manager in two years. It's residential work. He credits that school with his ability to build his company, but he's also doing it to be a good citizen. Now he's thinking about offering classes on how to balance a checkbook, how to buy a house, how to negotiate for a car.

Neuber: There are two issues. We have to teach owners of concrete construction companies how to protect themselves from getting in trouble. Most get into the business in residential, where they don't get into too many problems. Then they get into light commercial, and they start to get contracts they don't read because they're out working in the field every day. The next thing they know they get burned because they didn't read the contract, or they didn't understand the specification.

They think, if Fm out there working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, the guy's going to be happy with me; I do nice work. But when you get to a certain level, we all run into pitfalls. You can learn by experience, but that can be costly. Quite a few people should not be in a client business because they can't get past that. We also need to educate and train workers through apprentice programs.

Rick Yelton: There's more help out there than you realize. My son goes to Middle Tennessee State University in the concrete technology program. Of the 60 kids in his freshman class, 35% are sons and daughters of contractors wanting to learn about concrete industry management. The program has been funded by the concrete industry, and it's starting to produce people focused on the industry. They just received a grant from the Department of Education to develop a syllabus so they can use this same program at other schools around the country.

Learning to grow the business

Len Swederski: I've been marketing concrete parking lots. Any time we bid a new project where there's a parking lot, we ask to bid on the parking lot. Even if they decide not to go concrete, we at least gave it a shot.

Joe Nasvik: Beyond the owners, how are you marketing to the architects and engineers?

Swederski: Right now it's just one-on-one on a job-by-job basis. I try to get them to have a meeting with me. I bring the ACI materials and show then] that this is what's out there. That it's designed for low-speed traffic and for just the truck loads that will be applied to it. We do them all 6-inch, or whatever. We figure out the average daily truck traffic and the speed of the turning areas. With the laser screed we can vary the thickness of the concrete. So, for instance, on a bank we just did, the parking lot was 6 inches, and the drive lanes were only 4 1/2 inches. It was all one monolithic pour; we just varied the subgrade. So we can be competitive. The asphalt people won't do that.

Neuber: So you have to be 5 inches thick to be competitive?

Swederski: No, it depends on how much gravel you use, how much base there is.

With the ACI specs it calls for no base under the concrete; you're putting it right on a clay base. But as a concrete contractor, if I go in and start pulling out the gravel and the asphalt, which is often under the sitework contract, I'm stepping on somebody's toes, and it just creates problems for me on future jobs. So I try to team up with the asphalt guy. Maybe we can give the owner back 75 cents on the dollar.

Durability is another great selling point. Typically concrete doesn't fail in the first year, but with asphalt that's when you have all your problems. I've provided warranties up to 20 years. When I know that the owner is concerned about long tern], I give a better warranty.

Nasvik: I'm curious to know if others of you are marketing concrete and bow.

Neuber: We have the Pennsylvania Concrete Promotional Council that pretty much handles that. We like to do as much parking lot work as we can because it is a place to make some money. But I haven't actually gone out there and done marketing.

Swederski: A few years ago I flew to Texas for a parking lot promotional seminar. I was the only contractor that attended. The room was full of ready-mix sales people, cement sales people, ad sales people. I had invitations from all over the country. They all wanted to have a contractor interested in doing parking lots. There's a huge market out there for concrete contractors who want to team up with ready-mix producers.

How do I do marketing without spending a lot of money? In northern Illinois and southern Wisconsin there are more than 200 ready-mix salesmen out there everyday looking at projects. I want to be the man they call when they see a potential concrete parking lot. They're all salesmen working for me. And if they know there's going to be a good potential for a concrete parking lot then I've got a good shot at getting a lot of work--foundations, walls, flatwork, and the parking lot. And the ready-mix guy is going to sell twice as much concrete. It's a great marketing scheme.

Participants In the CONCRETE CONSTRUCTION 2004 Industry Trends Roundtable

Doug Bannister was a decorative concrete contractor for many years and now owns The Stamp Store, Oklahoma City.

Ian Blair is the CEO of Blair Concrete Services, of Wilmington and Raleigh, N.C.

Rafael A. Cabrera is vice president of market development for Proline Concrete Tools, Oceanside, Calif.

Jack Holley is vice president of quality assurace, Lafarge Corporation, Herndon, Va.

Darryl Manuel is president of Vexcon Chemicals, Philadelphia.

Joe Neuber is president of Neuber Concrete, Kimberton, Pa.

Bob Rininger is vice president and general manager of MK Concrete Construction, Frederick, Md.

David Scurto is vice president of Scurto Cement Construction, Elgin, Ill.

Len Swederski is president of Swederski Concrete Construction, Spring Grove, Ill.

Tom Klemens is senior editor, engineering for CONCRETE CONSTRUCTION.

Joe Nasvik is senior editor for CONCRETE CONSTRUCTION.

Bill Palmer is editor in chief of CONCRETE CONSTRUCTION and PUBLIC WORKS.

Rick Yelton is editor in chief of THE CONCRETE PRODUCER and MASONRY CONSTRUCTION.