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PAM: One of the things that runs rampant in our profession is low self-esteem. Now the first person I need to work on is me because I can't teach you, train you, lead you, care about you if I don't care about myself. So the answer to your question isn't easy because, as all cultural changes are necessary in a company, if the leadership is not willing to change, if simply it's just agreeing to disagree, if it is admitting that you've made a mistake--do you realize how hard that is for most people who run companies and how leveling that is if you have the ability to say, `You know what? I messed up.' `What should we do about that?' That gives confidence to the people who work with you to know that you're honest, to know that they can trust you.

HATTIE: Because they saw you make the mistake.

PAM: And they can make a mistake.

HATTIE: And they know you made it. And so if you don't admit it, they're going, `Oh, boy, there she goes again trying to cover up.'

PAM: And so it gives all the people you work with the ability to practice. This is all a practice because we never get it perfect. We never get it right. And so, therefore, if they have that opportunity to practice and have some progress, then it gives them a safe place to be. So I really believe that there's no quick shortcut to having a trustful environment that you can work in.

HATTIE: What is your definition of `feel safe'? You know, people go to work at the grocery store, they're the checker and they feel safe.

PAM: They're not safe -- because of the things that are said and done, the assessments that are made of them, the decisions that are made without them having a voice... People don't feel safe in an environment where their voice isn't heard.

GLORIA: We're a family, actually, and I think that makes a big difference.

HATTIE: What is it about her that makes people love to work here?

GLORIA: Oh, I think she's a great person. She stands behind us. We do a lot of education.